WEBVTT 00:05.300 --> 00:07.411 Thank you for joining me . My name is 00:07.411 --> 00:10.649 Chesley Vansickle , and I am the sport 00:10.649 --> 00:14.239 manager . The purpose 00:14.369 --> 00:17.690 of today's briefing is to explain the 00:17.690 --> 00:20.610 IMC in 20515 authorization and control 00:20.610 --> 00:23.370 measures uh that sport will be using 00:23.370 --> 00:25.889 when under sport oversight to hopefully 00:25.889 --> 00:28.056 answer questions and concerns from the 00:28.056 --> 00:30.780 flying community . And the guidance , 00:31.149 --> 00:33.669 uh , from this briefing can be found in 00:33.669 --> 00:37.630 SCIF 25-012 , and that's the one that 00:37.630 --> 00:39.574 initially established the handbook 00:39.574 --> 00:42.950 change , uh , the 2515 handbook change 00:42.950 --> 00:46.240 that established these procedures . So 00:46.240 --> 00:50.240 the authority , VFR , scene void and 00:50.240 --> 00:52.599 restricted airspace is not always a 00:52.599 --> 00:55.689 requirement . The requirements in 00:56.099 --> 00:57.988 restricted airspace come from the 00:57.988 --> 01:00.500 military airspace authority . And of 01:00.500 --> 01:02.500 course , everybody operating within 01:02.500 --> 01:04.819 that special use space is operating 01:04.819 --> 01:08.419 under MASA . The authority for 2515 is 01:08.419 --> 01:11.010 the test wing commander delegated down 01:11.010 --> 01:14.220 to the ops group commander . So in 01:14.220 --> 01:16.331 other airspaces , and I'll use ELA as 01:16.331 --> 01:18.260 an example . Uh , scheduled 01:18.260 --> 01:21.900 deconfliction might be what is used 01:21.900 --> 01:24.650 to ensure deconfliction of aircraft , 01:24.699 --> 01:26.588 and that just means that only one 01:26.588 --> 01:28.477 aircraft would be in a particular 01:28.477 --> 01:30.477 airspace at a time or in particular 01:30.477 --> 01:33.900 altitude stratum at a time . And when 01:33.900 --> 01:37.139 flights of more than one are using that 01:37.139 --> 01:39.260 same piece of airspace , then before 01:39.260 --> 01:41.482 they get airborne , they normally agree 01:41.482 --> 01:44.300 to the deconfliction rules . A should 01:44.300 --> 01:48.029 anybody go lost wingman or in IMC . 01:48.690 --> 01:50.790 Um , scheduled deconfliction doesn't 01:50.790 --> 01:53.669 work very well in R2515 , so we are 01:53.669 --> 01:56.750 using deconfliction from the military 01:56.750 --> 02:00.680 radar unit . This is a snapshot of the 02:00.680 --> 02:02.791 handbook . You don't need to read all 02:02.791 --> 02:04.847 of this . This is what's published , 02:04.847 --> 02:06.791 but this is where the authority is 02:06.791 --> 02:08.958 written . And I'll start a little with 02:08.958 --> 02:11.240 a little history on the sport 02:11.240 --> 02:15.119 capability . Um , so prior 02:15.119 --> 02:17.759 air traffic control radar approach 02:17.759 --> 02:20.529 control certification is required to 02:20.529 --> 02:22.929 even be hired at sport . So every 02:22.929 --> 02:25.529 controller here is a certified air 02:25.529 --> 02:29.039 traffic controller in a radar approach 02:29.039 --> 02:31.570 control . Additionally , sport uses the 02:31.570 --> 02:33.490 exact same air traffic control 02:33.490 --> 02:36.490 certified radar system as Joshua . We 02:36.490 --> 02:40.000 are actually set up as a sector 02:40.000 --> 02:43.000 of Joshua Control facility . Now , 02:43.009 --> 02:45.690 sport is not a certified air traffic 02:45.690 --> 02:48.009 control facility , at least not yet , 02:48.130 --> 02:50.019 and that yet would lead us into a 02:50.019 --> 02:52.019 completely different conversation . 02:53.539 --> 02:57.020 Safety . So these changes were 02:57.020 --> 03:00.660 implemented with goal one of increased 03:00.660 --> 03:02.740 safety , not just , let's make it 03:02.740 --> 03:05.699 easier while accepting a decrease in 03:05.699 --> 03:08.380 safety , but goal one is increased 03:08.380 --> 03:12.190 safety . Goal to also increase 03:12.190 --> 03:15.990 mission effectiveness . Uh , IFR 03:15.990 --> 03:19.509 clearance from the ATC facility within 03:19.509 --> 03:22.740 2515 may provide a false sense of 03:22.740 --> 03:26.710 safety . This is simply because FAA air 03:26.710 --> 03:30.039 traffic controllers are very good at 03:30.039 --> 03:32.029 what they're trained to do , but 03:32.029 --> 03:34.100 they're not trained to work VOD 03:34.100 --> 03:36.710 aircraft in special use airspace until 03:36.710 --> 03:38.789 they show up here . It's all new to 03:38.789 --> 03:41.259 them . Additionally , the Joshua 03:41.259 --> 03:44.009 Control facility has had a manning 03:44.009 --> 03:46.570 problem for quite some time . They are 03:46.570 --> 03:49.889 undermanned and even when they are 03:49.889 --> 03:53.440 fully manned , they staff only one 03:53.440 --> 03:57.210 radar scope to 03:57.210 --> 04:00.479 control all of the 2508 04:01.009 --> 04:03.009 airspace . That's a large piece of 04:03.009 --> 04:06.029 airspace . So here what we're looking 04:06.029 --> 04:08.270 at is what a sport controller would be 04:08.270 --> 04:10.159 looking at on their radar scope , 04:10.380 --> 04:14.029 primarily the R2-515 airspace , and we 04:14.029 --> 04:17.260 would staff with one radar controller 04:17.260 --> 04:19.316 and if there's ever more than just a 04:19.316 --> 04:21.427 couple of airplanes in the airspace , 04:21.427 --> 04:23.538 we would get that radar controller an 04:23.538 --> 04:26.160 assistant . This controller is your 04:26.160 --> 04:29.720 local channel 5 controller . Anytime an 04:29.720 --> 04:31.959 aircraft is taken off and has requested 04:31.959 --> 04:35.519 a discrete frequency , we add another 04:35.519 --> 04:38.519 controller to that mission alone . So 04:38.519 --> 04:40.741 if , if you're on a discrete , you have 04:40.741 --> 04:43.190 your own radar controller . So it's 04:43.190 --> 04:46.559 very easy for us to have 6 04:46.559 --> 04:50.489 controllers looking at this piece of 04:50.489 --> 04:52.839 airspace , all in the same room , all 04:52.839 --> 04:56.019 coordinating with each other . This is 04:56.019 --> 04:58.779 what the Joshua 1 controller is looking 04:58.779 --> 05:02.109 at . And you could see that's a large 05:02.109 --> 05:04.269 piece of airspace , and , and if the 05:04.269 --> 05:06.950 weather down here in 2515 is not so 05:06.950 --> 05:09.172 good , it may be fine up here in Panama 05:09.172 --> 05:12.670 saline . They could have six or so 05:12.670 --> 05:15.709 aircraft working Panama saline , maybe 05:15.709 --> 05:18.040 a large package . Edward's mission , 05:18.149 --> 05:20.470 working in Isabella Owens , a tanker in 05:20.470 --> 05:22.869 the track down here . They may have 05:22.869 --> 05:26.190 aircraft VFR to Tehachapi , a couple 05:26.190 --> 05:29.940 VFR aircraft headed to Mojave . And 05:29.940 --> 05:31.940 then they're discussing with Nellis 05:31.940 --> 05:34.107 what's coming across the corridor over 05:34.107 --> 05:36.980 here . And OK , now the tower has 05:36.980 --> 05:39.980 requested an IFR I'm sorry , an IFR 05:39.980 --> 05:42.036 clearance to get an aircraft through 05:42.036 --> 05:45.489 the clouds within R2515 . 05:46.220 --> 05:48.820 Now they got to get some airspace back 05:48.820 --> 05:51.130 from sport in order to do that , and 05:51.260 --> 05:53.920 you can see this can quickly become 05:53.920 --> 05:56.690 task saturating for that one 05:56.980 --> 06:00.890 FAA controller . OK , on to 06:00.890 --> 06:03.001 how we're going to go about this . So 06:03.001 --> 06:05.040 VMC remains the standard . 06:05.529 --> 06:08.739 Participating aircrew still shall 06:08.739 --> 06:12.290 operate in VMC to the maximum extent 06:12.290 --> 06:15.010 possible . When that's not possible or 06:15.010 --> 06:17.121 you need to get through a cloud layer 06:17.121 --> 06:19.869 to try and find VMC . The air crew need 06:19.869 --> 06:22.450 to notify sport immediately and then 06:22.450 --> 06:25.369 await sport instructions before 06:25.369 --> 06:28.049 entering IMC . Now , those instructions 06:28.049 --> 06:31.049 will come from Tower if you're going to 06:31.049 --> 06:34.149 depart immediately or almost 06:34.149 --> 06:37.779 immediately . into IMC and those 06:37.779 --> 06:39.779 instructions from sport , if you're 06:39.779 --> 06:41.723 just trying to get through a cloud 06:41.723 --> 06:43.890 layer , may be as simple as approved . 06:43.940 --> 06:46.339 There's no traffic in the airspace or 06:46.339 --> 06:49.019 approved , maintain altitude for 06:49.019 --> 06:51.470 traffic in front of you or approved 06:51.470 --> 06:54.100 heading west because there's traffic to 06:54.100 --> 06:56.299 the east . I'll get to what your tower 06:56.299 --> 06:58.700 instructions might be , uh , a little 06:58.700 --> 07:02.290 bit later . Sports 07:02.290 --> 07:05.089 requirements , uh , I put in bold here 07:05.089 --> 07:07.170 what's new . So we always provide 07:07.170 --> 07:09.450 traffic advisories , but now we are 07:09.450 --> 07:12.000 going to apply a separation safeguard 07:12.290 --> 07:14.540 if we know you're going to enter IMC . 07:14.890 --> 07:17.001 That's going to be 5 miles lateral or 07:17.001 --> 07:20.209 1000 ft vertical below 290 . And if 07:20.209 --> 07:22.850 you're above 290 , we're going to add 07:22.850 --> 07:24.950 another 1000 ft to the vertical 07:24.950 --> 07:28.049 separation minimum . And additionally , 07:28.190 --> 07:30.410 we have to maintain . Uh , those 07:30.410 --> 07:32.959 separation requirements until aircraft 07:32.959 --> 07:36.109 reestablished VMC and notify us . 07:36.730 --> 07:38.786 Once that occurs , things kind of go 07:38.786 --> 07:42.690 back to normal . Uh , additional 07:42.690 --> 07:46.290 safety limitations . We're only going 07:46.290 --> 07:48.970 to allow one aircraft in each work area 07:48.970 --> 07:52.809 to be IMC at a time , and there's 5 of 07:52.809 --> 07:54.920 these . There's Coors East and West , 07:55.089 --> 07:57.033 Black Mountain east and west , and 07:57.033 --> 07:59.529 Nolos , and these are defined by law . 08:00.380 --> 08:02.158 And then if we have more than 8 08:02.158 --> 08:05.369 aircraft in 2515 at a time , the 08:05.369 --> 08:07.369 airspace is pretty saturated , and 08:07.369 --> 08:09.760 we're just not going to do this at all . 08:10.290 --> 08:13.130 Now these numbers can be raised or 08:13.130 --> 08:15.074 lowered in the future as they need 08:15.074 --> 08:17.241 because again , the airspace authority 08:17.241 --> 08:20.529 is the OG . So we get all the aircrew 08:20.529 --> 08:22.640 to tell us what they need . Everybody 08:22.640 --> 08:24.751 agrees . We take this for OG approval 08:24.751 --> 08:26.918 and we can change these numbers . This 08:26.918 --> 08:30.820 is all internal . Aircrew 08:30.820 --> 08:33.130 compliance . So if entering IMC , 08:33.179 --> 08:35.049 aircrew must comply with sports 08:35.049 --> 08:38.219 instructions and must accept the 08:38.219 --> 08:41.770 additional airspace separation criteria . 08:41.979 --> 08:44.201 And of course , as always , if I'm able 08:44.201 --> 08:46.419 to comply , must notify sport 08:46.419 --> 08:48.586 immediately because we need to come up 08:48.586 --> 08:52.419 with a new plan . Departure and arrival 08:52.419 --> 08:54.820 considerations aircrew may use 08:54.820 --> 08:57.510 published obstacle departure procedures 08:57.820 --> 09:00.359 and instrument approaches approach 09:00.359 --> 09:03.460 procedures to and from the airport when 09:03.460 --> 09:07.419 entering IMC . Under sport control , 09:07.669 --> 09:11.070 aircrew must remain within 2515 during 09:11.070 --> 09:14.109 IMC operations , and that's important 09:14.109 --> 09:16.276 when you consider your missed approach 09:16.276 --> 09:18.498 procedures or you're planning to depart 09:18.498 --> 09:22.309 to our 2508 because the 2508 09:22.309 --> 09:24.539 rules have not changed . You must get 09:24.539 --> 09:28.070 to BMC for before sport can allow you 09:28.070 --> 09:31.390 to enter 2508 or you need to stand by 09:31.390 --> 09:33.612 for coordination with Joshua , and that 09:33.612 --> 09:36.739 just means we keep you in 2515 . And we 09:36.739 --> 09:39.017 coordinate with Joshua for a clearance , 09:39.017 --> 09:41.340 uh , that they can provide to allow you 09:41.340 --> 09:44.760 IFR into the complex , um , 09:45.369 --> 09:48.619 at a direction and altitude that will 09:48.619 --> 09:50.119 allow for that operation . 09:52.289 --> 09:54.400 Terrain and airspace . So the highest 09:54.400 --> 09:57.390 minimum bickering altitude in R2515 is 09:57.390 --> 10:00.090 7000 MSL . That means if you're above 10:00.090 --> 10:04.049 7000 MSL in 2515 , you have 10:04.049 --> 10:07.770 terrain clearance . So 7000 to an 10:07.770 --> 10:10.280 instrument approach procedure or the 10:10.280 --> 10:13.130 obstacle departure procedure up to 7000 10:13.130 --> 10:15.130 and you're good to go . Any heading 10:15.130 --> 10:18.039 above those altitudes are fine . 10:19.690 --> 10:21.912 This is that departure procedure . This 10:21.912 --> 10:23.746 is published . You don't need to 10:23.746 --> 10:25.912 memorize this , but it basically means 10:26.000 --> 10:28.520 any heading south or east of the main 10:28.520 --> 10:31.599 runway centerline headings , standard 10:31.599 --> 10:33.821 rate of climb , ensure your terrain and 10:33.821 --> 10:37.450 obstruction clearance . So on this 10:37.450 --> 10:39.561 picture , the green pictures are good 10:39.561 --> 10:41.783 and the red ones are bad . The obstacle 10:41.783 --> 10:43.950 departure procedures published here in 10:43.950 --> 10:47.890 the takeoff minimums . ILS tech and 10:47.890 --> 10:51.609 DME approaches to 23 left are 10:51.609 --> 10:53.570 good , and the missed approach 10:53.570 --> 10:55.809 procedures will at least allow you to 10:55.809 --> 10:59.799 remain within 2515 . This RNav approach 10:59.799 --> 11:02.830 is fine , but the missed approach may 11:02.830 --> 11:05.090 not keep you in 25 , 15 depend 11:05.400 --> 11:07.760 depending on your turn radius . So if 11:07.760 --> 11:09.960 you went on the go , the obstacle 11:09.960 --> 11:11.571 departure procedure would be 11:11.571 --> 11:14.760 appropriate . Nothing is real good to 11:14.760 --> 11:17.760 runway 5 . it doesn't keep you in the 11:17.760 --> 11:21.080 airspace . So if we , if we were IMC 11:21.080 --> 11:23.320 and you needed to land runway 5 , we're 11:23.320 --> 11:25.919 probably looking . At a 23 left 11:25.919 --> 11:29.130 approach circle to land runway 5 , and 11:29.130 --> 11:31.849 if that is not an option , then we 11:31.849 --> 11:33.738 either need to look at whether we 11:33.738 --> 11:36.049 should be flying in the airspace or 11:36.049 --> 11:38.400 whether we do need to transfer airspace 11:38.400 --> 11:40.979 back to Joshua so that they can provide 11:41.409 --> 11:43.890 IFR clearance procedures , especially 11:43.890 --> 11:47.049 if we need to go IFR , no kidding , IFR 11:47.049 --> 11:48.493 all the way to Runway 5 . 11:51.299 --> 11:53.479 This is a picture to kind of show you 11:53.479 --> 11:55.789 what that looks like . So the headings , 11:55.880 --> 11:59.280 everything east , south of the runway 11:59.280 --> 12:02.390 center lines is what the ODP says to do . 12:02.640 --> 12:06.080 So yes , heading 1080 complies with the 12:06.080 --> 12:08.479 ODP , but it also takes you out of the 12:08.479 --> 12:10.960 airspace pretty quickly . So if you're 12:10.960 --> 12:14.219 departing into IMC , uh , Immediately 12:14.219 --> 12:16.460 or nearly immediately , tower's going 12:16.460 --> 12:18.738 to need to get instructions from sport , 12:18.738 --> 12:20.738 and those instructions are probably 12:20.738 --> 12:23.440 going to be something like hitting 050 , 12:23.820 --> 12:27.780 070 , maybe even 090 , with an 12:27.780 --> 12:30.250 altitude to maintain that will get you 12:30.250 --> 12:33.539 to at least 7000 ft , while also 12:33.539 --> 12:36.500 providing the altitude separation 12:36.500 --> 12:38.739 requirements for anyone else that might 12:38.739 --> 12:40.580 be out here working . 12:43.090 --> 12:46.599 Additional updates . So we also changed 12:46.840 --> 12:50.130 13204 . It used to say only when tower 12:50.130 --> 12:52.359 is closed , that the Class D reverts to 12:52.359 --> 12:55.159 restricted airspace . And now it adds 12:55.159 --> 12:57.679 this . If the if the airport weather is 12:57.679 --> 13:00.960 less than 10003 , the Class D also 13:00.960 --> 13:03.440 reverts to restricted airspace , and 13:03.440 --> 13:05.218 that just keeps us in line with 13:05.218 --> 13:08.369 airspace rules . Uh , you would be 13:08.369 --> 13:12.090 following R2515 handbook rules anytime 13:12.090 --> 13:14.570 you're off of the ground . Uh , so we 13:14.570 --> 13:16.626 don't want to be trying to apply ATC 13:16.626 --> 13:20.510 Class D rules . The tower is not 13:20.510 --> 13:22.677 able to provide you any service in the 13:22.677 --> 13:25.640 airspace anyway , um , but they do 13:25.640 --> 13:27.690 retain control of the runways and 13:27.690 --> 13:30.559 taxiways . Uh , so any 13:31.390 --> 13:33.612 Takeoff clearance , landing clearance , 13:33.789 --> 13:36.590 taxi clearance remains under tower's 13:36.590 --> 13:39.710 control , and those are still ATC 13:39.710 --> 13:43.179 clearances . Additionally , if the 13:43.179 --> 13:46.260 airport , uh , is not below 1,0003 , 13:46.380 --> 13:48.436 but we know you're going to enter an 13:48.436 --> 13:50.890 IMC relatively quick , like , let's say 13:50.890 --> 13:54.469 the clouds start at 5000 ft , um , then 13:54.469 --> 13:56.413 sport is going to place a call for 13:56.413 --> 13:58.469 release on the tower , and that just 13:58.469 --> 14:00.691 means tower can't release you without , 14:00.809 --> 14:03.460 uh , an approval from sport . And 14:03.460 --> 14:05.571 during that approval is when sport is 14:05.571 --> 14:07.900 going to issue the instructions that 14:07.900 --> 14:11.440 they need to , uh , pose . To ensure 14:11.650 --> 14:14.530 that you can get above the ODP , I'm 14:14.530 --> 14:16.808 sorry , the minimum vectoring altitude , 14:17.090 --> 14:19.809 and keep you away from any other 14:19.809 --> 14:22.489 participating aircraft , that altitude 14:22.489 --> 14:25.809 is going to need to ensure that if 14:25.809 --> 14:27.920 you're , if you come off and we don't 14:27.920 --> 14:29.920 have radios , that you're protected 14:29.920 --> 14:31.753 from any other aircraft that are 14:31.753 --> 14:33.976 airborne . Um , and then what do you do 14:33.976 --> 14:36.229 after that ? So you find out that you 14:36.229 --> 14:38.469 don't have radios , I can assure you if 14:38.469 --> 14:40.580 you're airborne and we're not talking 14:40.580 --> 14:42.247 to you , you're going to have 14:42.247 --> 14:44.469 everyone's attention real quick . We're 14:44.469 --> 14:46.580 going to advise other aircraft in the 14:46.580 --> 14:48.636 airspace of what's going on , and we 14:48.636 --> 14:50.691 would expect you to basically squawk 14:50.691 --> 14:53.030 Nordo and , and then return for an 14:53.030 --> 14:55.270 approach back to the airport . 14:57.010 --> 15:00.650 If the weather is less than 15:00.650 --> 15:04.409 1,0003 , um , again , tower can't 15:04.409 --> 15:06.570 do anything with the airspace , but 15:06.570 --> 15:08.681 tower and sport are gonna ensure that 15:08.681 --> 15:11.169 only one aircraft is airborne at a time 15:11.169 --> 15:13.489 within the dimensions of the Class D . 15:13.849 --> 15:16.460 That assures everyone missed approach 15:16.460 --> 15:18.849 procedures that are possible , as well 15:18.849 --> 15:21.739 as the obstacle departure procedure 15:21.739 --> 15:24.539 even while other aircraft are arriving , 15:24.780 --> 15:27.219 and that is more than a standard IFR 15:27.219 --> 15:29.219 separation requirement . If we were 15:29.219 --> 15:32.565 doing ATC standard . IFR , all we would 15:32.565 --> 15:35.445 need to do is ensure an arriving 15:35.445 --> 15:37.984 aircraft never got closer than 3 miles 15:37.984 --> 15:40.294 to a departing aircraft . So this 15:40.905 --> 15:43.625 actually increases separation 15:43.625 --> 15:45.905 requirements over air traffic control 15:45.905 --> 15:49.510 IFR rules . OK , 15:49.669 --> 15:53.390 so I hear you . I've listened to it . I 15:53.390 --> 15:55.710 got it all , but I need an IFR 15:55.710 --> 15:58.500 clearance . So we'll start by saying no 15:58.500 --> 16:01.070 one's going to be denied IFRATC service . 16:01.109 --> 16:03.053 If that's what we got to do , then 16:03.053 --> 16:05.390 that's what has to be done . And , and 16:05.390 --> 16:07.989 why would anybody need that ? So from 16:07.989 --> 16:10.510 our perspective , our answer is you 16:10.510 --> 16:13.150 don't . But we don't know what 16:13.150 --> 16:15.317 everybody's requirements are . There's 16:15.317 --> 16:17.428 more than just 412 test wing aircraft 16:17.428 --> 16:19.539 lying around here . There's more than 16:19.539 --> 16:21.594 just military aircraft flying around 16:21.594 --> 16:24.909 here . An air carrier for sure needs an 16:24.909 --> 16:28.250 ATC clearance , IFR clearance . 16:28.909 --> 16:31.020 So we just want to put that out there 16:31.020 --> 16:33.869 that if whatever your situation is that 16:33.869 --> 16:36.309 and you determine I must have an ATC 16:36.309 --> 16:38.531 clearance . We're going to get that for 16:38.531 --> 16:41.039 you , but we need to know , everybody 16:41.039 --> 16:44.440 to know what that entails . And what 16:44.440 --> 16:47.119 I'm about to go over is how it was 16:47.119 --> 16:50.880 prior to this IMC in 20515 setup . 16:52.169 --> 16:54.280 This is what we have to do to get you 16:54.280 --> 16:57.770 that IFR clearance , um , even 16:57.770 --> 17:00.330 without the ability for sport to 17:00.330 --> 17:04.290 control you in IMC . It requires a 17:04.290 --> 17:06.609 transfer of airspace back to Joshua . 17:06.670 --> 17:09.410 They have to have airspace released 17:09.410 --> 17:13.130 from the MRU back to them in order to 17:13.130 --> 17:15.359 provide that clearance . This is what 17:15.359 --> 17:17.609 we've done in the past . It's always 17:17.609 --> 17:19.939 time consuming . It always creates , 17:20.209 --> 17:22.530 creates confusion between all the 17:22.530 --> 17:24.930 controllers involved and the pilots . 17:25.530 --> 17:28.250 Definitely without a doubt , increases , 17:28.329 --> 17:31.489 delays which likely lead to mission 17:31.489 --> 17:34.030 cancellations . And we believe it 17:34.030 --> 17:36.989 definitely decreases safety . And 17:36.989 --> 17:39.229 here's a picture to kind of show you 17:39.229 --> 17:41.510 what this looks like . So when we 17:41.510 --> 17:43.566 release airspace back to Joshua , it 17:43.566 --> 17:45.979 has to be a named piece of airspace . 17:46.349 --> 17:48.430 So in our instance , that piece of 17:48.430 --> 17:51.630 airspace is R2515 . It has to be the 17:51.630 --> 17:55.050 whole thing . At and below altitudes 17:55.050 --> 17:58.530 needed for the IFR clearance . 17:59.050 --> 18:01.250 This is effectively a real-time 18:01.250 --> 18:03.810 deactivation of restricted airspace . 18:03.849 --> 18:06.290 It's not just we transfer everybody 18:06.290 --> 18:08.609 over to a different control controller 18:08.609 --> 18:10.890 over at Joshua . All of the 18:10.890 --> 18:13.449 participating aircraft have to be out 18:13.449 --> 18:16.479 of that airspace for Joshua to be able 18:16.479 --> 18:20.219 to do this . So just for instance , At 18:20.219 --> 18:22.869 the cloud layer , we have determined is 18:22.869 --> 18:26.630 at 10,000 ft , and we have some players 18:26.630 --> 18:29.219 working in the airspace at or above 25 . 18:29.430 --> 18:31.652 They're working with sport . Everything 18:31.652 --> 18:33.652 is fine , and somebody needs an IFR 18:33.652 --> 18:35.597 clearance . We have to give Joshua 18:35.597 --> 18:38.829 enough to allow that aircraft to get to 18:38.829 --> 18:42.280 or remain in BMC until 18:42.280 --> 18:44.900 that IFA clearance has been issued . So 18:44.900 --> 18:46.956 it can't just be 10,000 ft where the 18:46.956 --> 18:49.219 clouds are . We're probably looking at 18:49.219 --> 18:52.150 about 15,000 ft that we need to return 18:52.150 --> 18:55.189 to Joshua , because the departure needs 18:55.189 --> 18:58.119 to get above the cloud layer , cancel 18:58.119 --> 19:01.650 IFR . And then get a handoff back to 19:01.650 --> 19:04.160 sport and get a frequency change back 19:04.160 --> 19:06.327 to sport before they become a conflict 19:06.327 --> 19:08.327 with the aircraft that are out here 19:08.640 --> 19:10.862 already working with sport . Same thing 19:10.862 --> 19:12.918 in reverse an aircraft that needs an 19:12.918 --> 19:15.239 IFR clearance back , we need to keep 19:15.239 --> 19:17.560 you above that altitude that we've 19:17.560 --> 19:20.089 released to Joshua . So that sounds 19:20.089 --> 19:23.410 like from sport , maintain 16,000 we 19:23.410 --> 19:26.400 hand you off , contact Joshua . Joshua 19:26.400 --> 19:29.430 to send you to 15 and below that we 19:29.430 --> 19:32.239 have returned to them , and they issue 19:32.239 --> 19:35.040 you an IFR clearance back to the 19:35.040 --> 19:38.119 airport . Let's look at another 19:38.119 --> 19:41.280 scenario where it's BMC lower . We'll 19:41.280 --> 19:44.239 say it's BMC 10,000 and below . The 19:44.239 --> 19:48.160 clouds are 11 to 15,000 , so above 19:48.160 --> 19:52.079 it's BMC and everything is fine . So 19:52.079 --> 19:54.599 now we have a couple of king Airs , 19:54.640 --> 19:56.696 we'll say , are flying around in the 19:56.696 --> 20:00.520 airspace , BMC at around 8000 ft . And 20:00.520 --> 20:03.280 we have a few aircraft working above 20:03.280 --> 20:06.319 let's say 20,000 and above , and 20:06.319 --> 20:08.430 somebody comes back from Isabella and 20:08.430 --> 20:10.800 says , Oh , I see the cloud layer , and 20:10.800 --> 20:12.880 I'm going to need that IFR clearance 20:12.880 --> 20:15.280 back to the airport . Well , I can't 20:15.280 --> 20:17.160 just change frequencies of these 20:17.160 --> 20:19.229 participating aircraft working down 20:19.229 --> 20:21.562 here to Joshua and allow that to happen . 20:22.000 --> 20:24.056 These aircraft that are working down 20:24.056 --> 20:27.420 here have to leave . Um , either leave 20:27.420 --> 20:30.699 the airspace , go land , or climb with 20:30.699 --> 20:33.380 sport up to the altitudes that are 20:33.380 --> 20:35.819 available . And once I get you out of 20:35.819 --> 20:39.099 there , now I can release the altitudes 20:39.099 --> 20:42.069 needed at and below , down to the 20:42.069 --> 20:45.185 ground . For this IFR operation to the 20:45.185 --> 20:47.407 airport , it would be the same thing in 20:47.407 --> 20:50.025 reverse . I can't release airspace for 20:50.025 --> 20:52.944 a departure if I have aircraft that are 20:52.944 --> 20:56.305 in that airspace participating under 20:56.305 --> 20:59.385 restricted special use airspace routes . 21:00.359 --> 21:03.040 Additionally , the obstacle departure 21:03.040 --> 21:05.469 procedure doesn't change because Joshua 21:05.469 --> 21:08.910 has the airspace . There's only one ODP . 21:09.390 --> 21:11.579 So if you're getting a departure 21:11.579 --> 21:14.670 clearance from Joshua , it has to take 21:14.670 --> 21:18.150 you over here where we probably have 21:18.150 --> 21:21.589 other aircraft working above the clouds 21:21.589 --> 21:24.349 in BMC . You have to go this way . 21:24.869 --> 21:27.459 There's no ODP that takes you to the 21:27.459 --> 21:29.609 Northwest , even though we might know 21:29.609 --> 21:32.719 the terrain's not so bad out here . The 21:32.719 --> 21:35.479 procedure does not go northwest . I 21:35.479 --> 21:37.760 hope no one is getting IFR clearances 21:37.760 --> 21:39.760 off the ground that say fly heading 21:39.760 --> 21:42.150 northwest , because I'm telling you 21:42.150 --> 21:44.589 that is another problem . 21:45.939 --> 21:48.089 OK , so what is the other option for 21:48.089 --> 21:50.969 IFR ? It is the Palmdale corridor . 21:51.010 --> 21:53.260 This already exists by agreement with 21:53.260 --> 21:55.849 Sport and Joshua . For those aircraft 21:55.849 --> 21:59.280 that cannot accept R2515 21:59.569 --> 22:01.770 handbook rules . This is pretty much 22:01.770 --> 22:04.089 any air carrier , which would be very 22:04.089 --> 22:07.439 rare , maybe . DV carrying 22:07.439 --> 22:10.160 aircraft say nope , I must have IFR off 22:10.160 --> 22:12.319 the ground , and there may be another 22:12.319 --> 22:14.229 reason here and there , but what 22:14.229 --> 22:16.880 happens is we release this chunk right 22:16.880 --> 22:20.239 here , 8000 and below to allow an 22:20.239 --> 22:23.079 IFR operation off the airport towards 22:23.079 --> 22:26.199 Palmdale , climbing to 7 . Once 22:26.199 --> 22:28.959 aircraft leave the boundary of the 22:28.959 --> 22:31.680 airspace above 7000 is available to 22:31.680 --> 22:34.939 Joshua as they can . A traffic 22:34.939 --> 22:36.883 depending . It's the same thing in 22:36.883 --> 22:39.660 reverse for arrivals . Aircraft come in . 22:40.219 --> 22:42.819 Joshua gets them down to at least 7000 22:42.819 --> 22:45.209 ft and get cleared a visual approach . 22:45.459 --> 22:47.515 That aircraft has to stay within the 22:47.515 --> 22:49.681 boundaries of the Delta Airspace as it 22:49.681 --> 22:52.780 lands . But if you're using that to for 22:52.780 --> 22:55.800 an IFR clearance to find BMC above , 22:56.780 --> 22:58.780 number one , you need a flight plan 22:58.780 --> 23:00.947 filed , which you probably didn't do . 23:00.947 --> 23:03.280 So we have to type that into the system . 23:03.280 --> 23:05.280 That's going to be a delay . You're 23:05.280 --> 23:07.447 going to get a maintained 7000 on your 23:07.447 --> 23:09.669 way to Palmdale , points beyond , let's 23:09.669 --> 23:11.669 say you're looking to go around the 23:11.669 --> 23:13.669 airspace , climb high , if you need 23:13.669 --> 23:15.910 above 13,000 over here , you're going 23:15.910 --> 23:18.021 to get a handoff to LA Center because 23:18.021 --> 23:21.349 Joshua only owns 13,000 down here . Um , 23:21.630 --> 23:23.630 and then if you cross this boundary 23:23.630 --> 23:25.574 over here , it doesn't matter what 23:25.574 --> 23:25.550 altitude you're at , you're going to 23:25.550 --> 23:28.510 get a handoff to LA Center . OK , uh , 23:28.640 --> 23:30.839 now I'm at an altitude . I found BMC . 23:31.040 --> 23:33.151 Now you need a handoff back to Joshua 23:33.280 --> 23:35.359 to come back into the airspace , and 23:35.359 --> 23:38.280 then another handoff back to sport , uh , 23:38.400 --> 23:42.160 to work in BMC in 2515 . It would be 23:42.160 --> 23:44.271 the same process . If you wanted that 23:44.271 --> 23:47.875 IFR clearance into the airport , uh , 23:48.375 --> 23:50.431 around , you would have to go around 23:50.431 --> 23:52.708 the airspace . This is all , of course , 23:52.708 --> 23:54.614 if we don't release at and low 23:54.614 --> 23:58.614 altitudes in 2515 to Joshua . 24:00.199 --> 24:02.199 OK , so we've made it to the end of 24:02.199 --> 24:04.650 this , uh , questions , what if 24:04.650 --> 24:06.819 scenarios , by all means , we want to 24:06.819 --> 24:09.619 answer all of that . So , uh , feel 24:09.619 --> 24:12.540 free , please email us , call us , and 24:12.540 --> 24:14.596 we will take your questions whenever 24:14.596 --> 24:16.818 you have them . Uh , additionally , I'm 24:16.818 --> 24:19.589 going to keep the team's briefings 24:19.589 --> 24:22.229 times that I had , uh , initially set 24:22.229 --> 24:25.270 out , and we will join those as well 24:25.270 --> 24:27.989 and either provide the whole brief , or 24:27.989 --> 24:30.150 it can be just a question and answer 24:30.150 --> 24:33.469 scenario . And I thank you for your 24:33.469 --> 24:37.390 time and , and , uh , yeah , let us 24:37.390 --> 24:39.670 know what your questions are , and , 24:39.719 --> 24:41.775 and we will get those answers to you 24:41.775 --> 24:43.300 just as soon as possible .